Baptism: Is it essential to salvation?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Deborah M. Thomas on August 15, 2008 at 3:07pm

Norma:
My understanding is that baptism is an outward demonstration of one accepting Christ as Lord and Savior. I don't believe it is essential to salvation. There are persons who are physically unable to be immersed in the water who confess Jesus Christ as Lord. They will not be denied by Him.

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Permalink Reply by Norma on August 15, 2008 at 3:29pm

I agree as well. Her reply to the thief was that he must have been baptized at some point in his life. Apparently, there are some that believe without baptism there is no salvation.

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Mary Mockinbird Martin on August 17, 2008 at 5:41am

Norma, I agree with Deborah Thomas. I have heard it said, and I say it as well, one can go down a ry devil an come up a wet one; The most essential thing to me, as I study the bible is that one must believe, see Romans 10:8-13. Baptism is like becoming completely dressed.
Like Peter said after we accept Jesus as our personal savior, and is baptised, we will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit; The Baptism of the Holy Spirit, if U will?
This brings another thought to my mind.Will we receive the Holy Spirit if we Believe and Confess that Jesus is our Lord and Savior, and leave off Baptism?

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Permalink Reply by Bobbie Davis on August 18, 2008 at 12:21pm

Hi Ms. Norma:
You do not have to be baptised in order to be saved. Jesus said that "if you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, you shall be saved," he did not say that you have to be baptised to be saved, believe and confess, it is as simple as that. Confess that you are a sinner and accept Jesus into your heart, you will be saved. Being baptised is a way of identifying with Him because He was baptised by John the Baptist. If someone is on their sick bed and confess and accept Jesus, He is not going to "not save them" because they were not baptised. He made it plain and simple, so that all who believe, confess and accept Him, shall be saved. God is a loving God and He wants everyone to be saved. He did not make it complicated.

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Permalink Reply by Norma on August 18, 2008 at 12:32pm

Amen, Auntie! I want to so much know how to convince those who don't believe as we do that the purpose of Jesus's death and resurrection is for the saving of all souls. He isn't trying to lead us astray with confusion but to have us all reconciled to Him. He is a God of order not confusion. I pray for one church, one Lord and one baptism! Jesus so much wants us to become one so others can see that we are His because of our love for each other. I am yet hopeful... I (we) can do all things through Christ...

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Permalink Reply by Erica M. Wilson on August 21, 2008 at 2:44am

Mt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Mr 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mr 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
The great commission.

Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I think the Plan of Salvation is to 1. confess and repent of your sins 2. believe and confess Jesus is your Savior 3. get baptized. The only people who did not have to be baptized were the thief on the cross and those believers who were captive in hell. There are exceptions made for those who can't be imersed. Although, I remember a few men in our church who were carried into the pool. Guess it depends on the deacons and pastor. You do have to be careful too; some churches/pastors don't baptize in all three. Some do Father and Son, some Son and Holy Spirit.

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Permalink Reply by William Bell on August 26, 2008 at 4:05pm

The thief on the cross lived under a different Covenantal terms than those to whom Peter addressed on Pentecost of Acts 2. You may recall that the apostles were told to wait until they received power from on high (The Holy Spirit) who would guide them into all truth, before they began to preach the gospel with the terms of salvation.

Thus, when Jesus was on the cross, he was yet living under the terms of the Old Covenant age/pre-gospel times with terms that were different than those of the New Covenant. (See Hebrews 8:6-13). Therefore, the thief would not have been subject to the commands of the gospel as preached on Pentecost of Acts 2 and beyond any more than would Pharaoh or Nebuchadnezzar.

Jesus' death on the cross sealed his ministry on earth in the Old Covenant, which is called the ministration of death, 2 Cor. 3, and under which he was born and lived, (Gal. 4:4). His resurrection resulted in his entrance of a new realm, that of the Spirit. (See 2 Corinthians 5:16).

The point is this. We cannot judge what is essential for those living in under the terms of the New Covenant, by the terms of those who lived under the Old before Pentecost. Hence, it is an apples to oranges comparison to bring the thief on the cross into the discussion of the essentiality of baptism (except for educational exercise) as an argument against it for those who lived after Pentecost of Acts 2.

That being said, it's important to note that Paul found certain disciples at Ephesus who only knew the baptism of John, (Acts 19:1-6). They had learned of the requirement to be baptized from Apollos, (Acts 18:24f) who only knew about the batism of John, the baptizer, which was not the same as baptism done through the authority of Christ under the great commission.

When Paul encountered these disciples, questioned them, learned of their ignorance of the terms of salvation under Christ, he taught them more correctly and baptized them into Christ following which they received the power of the Holy Spirit. In this case, those baptized after Pentecost under John's baptism were required to be baptized properly according to the terms of the gospel.

Next, it is likely that the thief on the cross was a Jew. He seemed knowledgeable of Jesus' promise of the kingdom as announced by John and Jesus as at hand, (Matt. 3:12; 4:17) and with a humble change of opinion concerning the Christ, asked to remembered when Jesus returned in his kingdom.

It is unlikely that a Gentile necessarily knew that much about the kingdom. (For example, Pilate, a Roman, nor Herod, an Idumean, knew very much at all about Christ or his mission). Thus, in my opinion, the thief on the cross was very likely a backsliding Jew who may even have been baptized by John the Baptist, or at least knew of his ministry.

Christ's offer to him to be with him in paradise that day, is no less of an event than his telling the man afflicted by palsy, "your sins be forgiven you." Neither of those isolated incidents mitigate against the requirement of those seeking salvation after his death to be baptized.

Finally, baptism of proper proper candidates (those who believe and repent, etc):

Places one into Christ, Gal. 3:27
Washes away their sins, Acts 22:16
Is commanded by Christ, Matt. 28:19; Mk. 16:16; Acts 10:48
Places one into the body of Christ (the church) 1 Cor. 12:13
Give access into the kingdom (John 3:3-5
Is how one is born again/of God , (John 3:3-5)
Is how one enters the death of Christ in order to be raised with him/i.e. participate with him in resurrection,/newness of life (Romans 6:3-5)
Is how one puts off the "body of the sins of the flesh" being circumcised by Christ, (Col. 2:11, 12)
Is what a penitent believer has to do to be saved, (Mk. 16:16, Acts 2:38, 16:31, 32)
Clears the conscience of sins, Hebrews 10:22; 1 Peter 3:21
Is not a work of man/or merit, but an act of the grace and mercy of God, Titus 3:5
Is the means through which we are sanctified, Ephesians 5:26

And as described by the middle voice, (Grk) is not an act done by man, but action/operation
done upon man by God when he/she submits to God's will.

Baptism was never commanded nor intended to be performed upon "unbelievers" or
impenitent subjects. To bring such into the question misses the mark of the discussion.

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Permalink Reply by Norma on August 26, 2008 at 6:45pm

You raise very interesting points. I would never 'debate' God's word beyond gaining a better understanding of these matters and to ensure the salvation of those I encounter through witness. As you directed in Acts 19:5-6 it clearly states that the Holy Spirit did not come upon these men/believers until Paul laid hands on them. Paul specifically asked them if they had received the Holy Spirit once they believed and they had no knowledge of the Holy Spirit. Paul indicated that "John's baptism" was one of repentance meaning he instructed them to believe on the one to come after him. Though these men had been baptized with water the Holy Spirit was not in them. It is also worth mentioning that many who were not "true" believers were baptized by John as indicated in Matthew 3:7-12. John admonished them (Pharisees and Sadducees) that he would baptize them with water unto repentance but Jesus would baptize them with the Holy Spirit and fire. It is at this point that Jesus will separate the "wheat from the tare." This leads me to believe that many have done the act but will it withstand the baptism by the Holy Spirit and fire. Thank you so much for these scriptual references. I have no need to re-state what you have already stated quite eloquently. Be blessed!

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Permalink Reply by William Bell on August 26, 2008 at 9:07pm

Just a note in reply. Many believe that Holy Spirit baptism and fire baptism as mentioned in Matthew 3:10,11, is yet active today. It is not, an opinion which I'm sure is not shared by many. Holy Spirit baptism was given to the first century generation "only." It is a huge misunderstanding of scripture in my judgment to believe it continues today.

"Fire baptism" was the punishment John promised the Jews that Christ would mete out to those who refused to obey him at the end of the Jewish age. This destruction came upon them within about 40 years of John's utterance.

Holy Spirit baptism is not the baptism of the great commission commanded of the apostles because men cannot and did not administer it, as you state. Christ administered it. He shall baptize you, just as He administer's judgment, (John 5:27).

Holy Spirit baptism was not "for" salvation but rather confirmed those who received salvation through baptism in water. (Cornelius, the only exception to this rule, received the Holy Spirit before his baptism, (Acts 10:44-48) --mainly to convince the Jews that Gentiles were accepted of God, -see Acts 11:14-18) but was commanded to be baptized in water to be saved.)

The meaning of Peter's question in light of this would be, "Can any man forbid the Gentiles from being baptized in water for salvation, since God has approved of them by giving them the Holy Spirit?

This is all the more evident from the fact that for the first 8-10 years, the Jews preach the gospel to none but the Jews only, (Acts 11:19) withholding the blessing of salvation from the Gentiles.

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Permalink Reply by Roosevelt Allen on August 28, 2008 at 9:41am

In 1985, I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost according to Acts 2:38. I don't have to guess, I know it's real. The same way I know Jesus lives. The thing that gets me is that people try to rationalize Salvation. Take God for what his Word says. I believe the whole Bible just as it was written. Seek for the Gift of the Holy Ghost. You will see God's Word completely different. Why do people feel they have to tell you what the Word means. It's simple and it's right just as it is.

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Permalink Reply by Mary McClendon on December 11, 2008 at 10:00pm

Wow Ms.\Mrs. Norma this is a very elaborate and broad topic.. I feel that EVERYONE has a valid point. I do believe that you have to be baptized to become saved.. Over 2000 years ago Christ said," Upon this rock I will build my church," Matt 16:18. This rock was the eternal TRUTH that Christ was the promised Saviour, the Son of God. Christ is the Head of the Church, Eph 1:22-23 and adds the saved to His Body Acts 2:47.
As Christian we must:
HEAR the Gospel of Christ Mark 12:29 and Rom 10:17
BELEIVE in God Heb 11:6
REPENT turn away from your OLD sinful life Luke 13:3, 5
CONFESS Jesus to be the Son of God Matt 10:32-33
BE BAPTIZED for the remission of past sins Acts 2:38 Rom 6:3-4
We also MUST and Im sure you all will agree WORSHIP God in SPIRIT and TRUTH Acts 20:7 and Heb 10:26

To you Brother William Bell you have said it all!!!!

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Permalink Reply by Rachel Williams on January 5, 2009 at 3:17pm

You must also remember that the thief on the cross was before the death of Jesus Christ. He told the thief that "today you will be with me in paradise." Paradise was a holding place where the devil held all of them captive. After Jesus died, He went into hell and preached a message to them and those that wanted to leave left with Him. We must follow the things of Christ. I believe that we try to over-analyze what the bible says because I believe that we try to find a loop hole in what we are told to do. It is plainly stated in His word that we are to be baptized and we should follow His lead. In Matthew 28:19-20, Jesus states "Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost; teaching them to observe ALL things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo I am with you alway even until the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus does not say anything about going down a dry devil and coming up a wet one. We are not to be so judgemental or what some of us have said "fruit inspectors" because it is not our place. If a person repents and backslides, encourage them to get back up and keep moving forward!!

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